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  • General Q&A, Bee chat and only Bee chat please
General Q&A, Bee chat and only Bee chat please
 #8477  by Dolly
 12 Aug 2020, 12:17
Hi
Can you tell me if bees forage on rhododendrons.Im not sure I know they are much maligned and I've heard they are poisonous. What is the opinion regarding the effects this plant may have on bees and any honey they subsequently produce :?:
 #8478  by NigelP
 12 Aug 2020, 12:48
In 401 B.C. the general Xenophon was leading 10,000 Greek mercenaries back home after having fought with distinction against the grand army of the king of Persia.
As they hurried towards Asia Minor towards the black sea plundering and battling natives as they went a mystifying event befell them. While making camp and looking for food in the territory of Colchis, they notice extraordinary numbers of swarming bees. After feasting on honey raided from the beehives, wrote Xenophon in his history The Anabasis, the soldiers suddenly became "like intoxicated madmen" and soon collapsed by the thousands. Xenophon reported that his once proud troops sprawled over the ground like victims of a terrible rout. As though under a spell, the warriors were immobilized and a "great despondency prevailed" until they began to recover a few days later. Still feeling weak, they continued west to friendly territory. Unknown to Xenophon and his soldiers, the culprit was naturally toxic honey, produced by bees that collected nectar from rhododendron blossoms. Inhabitants of the Black Sea region knew all about their beautiful yet baneful rhododendron honey,
But strangers in their land eagerly devoured the tempting poisonous honeycombs.
 #8479  by Dolly
 12 Aug 2020, 16:40
An amazing and fascinating story ,I think I may have heard before it sounds somewhat familiar.,but will our honey bees feed on them this day and age . :shock:
 #8481  by NigelP
 12 Aug 2020, 17:22
Of course they will. Man may have changed but bees are remarkably the same.
However, I suspect you need huge swathes of Rhododendron for really poisonous honey to be made. Something that might have existed circa 400BC in Asia Minor, but unlikely to be the same acreage today.
 #8499  by NigelP
 13 Aug 2020, 19:30
I thought "toxic honeys" was quite an interesting subject.
It is.
They are well know and recorded. The toxin is a grayanotoxin causing breathing and hypnotic (hallucinogenic) episodes. Been reported in Asia Minor, Himalayas (remember those cliff dangling honey hunters), Southern Russia, Eastern United States, Pacific Northwest and a few other locales.
What is of interest is the effects vary depending on the amount consumed (not surprising).
In Turkey "Del Bali" as it is called is the addition of a small amount of toxic honey to milk or alcohol,to produce enhanced effects. It was a major export to Europe in the 18th century. About 25 tons of "toxic" honey per year was shipped. Called miel fou (mad honey) that was added to drinks sold in taverns.
It is though "mad Honey may have been the driver of the prophesies of the Pythia of Delphi.
There's a lot more but that is the distillate.
Hope some of you find it of interest.
Now where are there plantations of Rhododendrons :)

Another interesting "dark" aspect of bees (and wasps and hornets) has been their use as weapons of war. Goes way back into BC...and even comparatively recently. The Vietcong booby trapped nests of Asian hornets...
 #8504  by Patrick
 14 Aug 2020, 09:46
Interesting stuff indeed. I wonder if our localised UK stands of feral Rhododendron produce significant amounts of grayanotoxins or it is a function of climate? I have not been to Northern Turkey or Nepal but I could imagine it might be a lot hotter and drier in summer.

I have never read any convincing UK accounts of Rhody honey poisoning but maybe we do not attempt to target it as a monofloral crop?

I suspect our bees might occasionally visit many plants with nectars and pollens which might have particular effects if consumed exclusively in sufficient quantity. But unless the bees are deliberately located in a large area of monofloral crop, the sheer number of flower visits required to make a pound of stored honey over and above the huge amount the bees consume themselves are huge. Then further blending by the beekeeper on extraction and final consumption by consumers in relatively small amounts, presumably makes any such influences negligible.
 #8505  by NigelP
 14 Aug 2020, 11:51
It's a variable about production. Apparently you can get combs with mad honey in places and the rest is fine. Often a spring crop or Dry summer in mountainous areas. In some regions one year can be "mad honey" and the next fine, depends on whats in flower and when etc etc.
The Nepalese test their combs by placing their hands on them. If it tingles it's "mad honey". I suspect the reason they go to such extraordinary lengths is not for "normal" honey :)
It will be highly prised for religious and mystic rites me thinks.
 #8507  by Chrisbarlow
 14 Aug 2020, 21:49
NigelP wrote:
14 Aug 2020, 11:51
It's a variable about production. Apparently you can get combs with mad honey in places and the rest is fine. Often a spring crop or Dry summer in mountainous areas. In some regions one year can be "mad honey" and the next fine, depends on whats in flower and when etc etc.
The Nepalese test their combs by placing their hands on them. If it tingles it's "mad honey". I suspect the reason they go to such extraordinary lengths is not for "normal" honey :)
It will be highly prised for religious and mystic rites me thinks.
I did wonder if the real prize was the mad honey