BBKA Forum

British Beekeepers Association Official Forum 

  • Supersedure

  • More advanced beekeeping discussion forum.
More advanced beekeeping discussion forum.
 #49  by Patrick
 21 Jul 2018, 21:10
Just as there seems to have been less inclination to swarm this year so I have also had a higher than usual tendency to supersedure in July. Normally I would say that any colony producing normal (i.e. not emergency) queen cells in May / June / July should still be considered as potentially swarming, as I have known several colonies left to their own devices to supersede ( based on few cells being produced and towards the middle of frames rather than along the edge) actually swarming anyway and leaving me looking a right Charlie. I now ignore the "leave all alone" advice and if i am confident it really is a supersedure attempt, I will still reduce down to a single queen cell.

Critical to this is the fact all my queens are clipped so if the bees do change their mind, I don't lose the workers and in natural conditions the queen would be replaced by the emerging virgin anyway.

What do others do if they suspect supersedure is taking place?
 #52  by AdamD
 22 Jul 2018, 14:09
I usually expect to see supercedure later in the season with colonies and 2 year old queens - so my 2016 queens - none so far for me but with honey still coming in, they haven't bothered. However I did have one colony that threw up a couple of supercedure cells at the end of May. I 'harvested' them expecting more where I would then allow the colony to re-queen. However they didn't and the queen is still going strong.
I will usually harvest supercedure queencells from a good colony. And with clipped queens, I am not too worried about swarming - as you point out, in the summer you cannot guarantee that a colony won't swarm with them.
 #255  by Steve (The Drone)
 11 Aug 2018, 13:20
Patrick- It’s an odd year. Out of eight colonies, I’ve had four supersede and only one attempted to swarm. Of the first colony to supersede the Queen has now failed and on Tuesday I found 10 emergency Queen cells. As there is little time left this beekeeping year and they have had a brood break I’ve merged them. Also had only two swarm call-outs this season. Something to do with our unusual weather? That said the honey crop has been great.
Steve.
(Woeful avatars on this new forum- and it won’t let me use the picture of my horrid old hive)
 #279  by AdamD
 13 Aug 2018, 09:27
Nice supercedure cell on Saturday in one hive. Old queen seen - V-E-R-Y slow on the frame and obviously on her way out. Afterwards I decided to remove the queencell and put in another from elsewhere. On Sunday it was open. I left it too late!
I have another colony where they may have superceded already as there was evidence of a torn down queencell; I need to check that one again. And a third with a small brood nest and a failing queen but no supercedure.
I am anticipating that there is still enough time for queens to mate. However with little forage around it's quite possible that drones will be thrown out if not done already and colonies will not be too keen on producing them.

Swarms - I don't get may call-outs; this year only two. I received one when I was on holiday in the Med in July and another which I collected. The small virgin turned out to be a nice sized queen.

Steve, you'll need to reduce the size of your avatar in order for it to be accepted. (No, I don't like the standard ones either!)
 #286  by Patrick
 13 Aug 2018, 16:49
Hi Steve

Good to hear from you. Sounds very similar to me - I am not surprised that you have had a good crop either, I think the much less disruptive process of supersedure over swarming has enabled colonies to forage continuously with a full workforce in place and a balanced colony of bees and brood in all stages.

I have to say Adam I did chuckle about the number of times I have had creative plans for ripe cells and then gone in to put them into practice and found the little blighters have hatched! Glad its not just me then..
 #410  by Steve (The Drone)
 25 Aug 2018, 16:59
Patrick- ‘Quell un Bummer’ as they say in France. The merged colony has now gone Queenless and on this Tuesday just gone contained 8 sealed emergency cells. All my other colonies are strong and to merge again would be impractical- I winter on 12x14’s plus undersupering. A phone around showed that mated Queen suppliers ( should that be ‘suppliers of mated Queens?) have all ceased for the season. I ended up leaving one fat cell in the parent hive and one in a nuc. This I packed with a frame of food and brood from each of the other colonies. Must now hope for a warm September with Drones still flying.
Talking supersedure- last year I had a Yellow mother and daughter within the same colony for over two months. On one inspection they were both close together on a frame. No camera of course.
Steve.
 #414  by AdamD
 26 Aug 2018, 10:04
There's still a chance for mating - here's hoping for an 'indian' summer.
I have one nuc with a queencell - and a few drone cells in the worker brood. The workers obviously know that 'mum' is of poor quality. Assuming the new queen emerges (in a week) and mates, the colony will probably then be too small to go into the winter unaided, so it might need boosting from elsewhere once the new queen is functioning OK.