Chocker Hive - Swarm Returned

[Japey Edge]

Hi everyone.

So my biggest colony tried to swarm last week. They were put in a nuc with their clipped queen.
Same colony tried it again today, but after a while it looks like they came back as there was more similar activity and they were stuffed into BB and bearding like crazy. Pic below shows them after they swarmed and assumedly returned.


So with that in mind - do I have two virgin queens in the hive and are they going to try to swarm again?

Also, as many responses from different people appreciated so I can understand the bigger picture - what would you do in this situation?

I'm half tempted to stick a poly nuc queen excluder over the entrance
I'm wondering whether to add a second brood box

Also I have two queens on the way so will be looking to requeen this colony but I can imagine the general consensus will be that it's almost impossible to know what's going on in this crazy colony.

Howay guys just throw your thoughts and ideas into this thread and help someone who is losing his head please

[Japey Edge]

And just so you know, this is the front of the hive without a beard of bees. Just showing the tunnel entrance

[Japey Edge]

And this is it now - 9pm...

[AndrewLD]

You refer to NUC but its hard to tell what size hive that is? But that looks on the face of it to be too many bees needing a bigger hive - one of the most basic causes of swarming.
Can it be that simple?

[Japey Edge]

That's an 11 frame Abelo poly hive with 3 supers. One super almost ready to take off. Second super mostly drawn and half filled. Third super frames are just foundation..
Brood box only has 6 frames of brood and the rest is stores.
I don't know how they got so big.

[stechad]

Have you got the kit to do a split or add another brood box.

[Japey Edge]

Yeah plenty of kit to do either. Do I need to filter the bees through a queen excluder?

[AndrewLD]

Given the way my bees have been swarming, I am clearly no expert on this but 5 frames of stores suggests the brood box is stores bound (i.e. the queen has not got enough room to lay. Another basic cause of swarming. If you have any drawn brood frames you could take out stores and put them in. If its foundation it will have to be drawn and that takes time and needs a nectar flow (or feeding).
Here's an idea I'd want experienced beekeepers to comment on but here's goes:
Normally you wouldn't split a brood nest because it needs lots more bees to keep the brood warm at night. I am just wondering if this is one of those cases where you could put the foundation in between the brood frames - gives them more incentive to draw them out and more work to do, might take their minds off swarming.
I am going to have to split a hive next week and I might just do exactly that.

[AdamD]

You haven't said what's in the hive with regard to queencells.
If the colony swarmed, then it's fair to assume that there were queencells in the hive even if it were congested - usually about to be sealed although if the weather was poor, they could have been sealed for a few days before the queen left. The timing would be about right for the first virgin out of the traps to leave, sure that one of her very slightly younger sisters would take over the colony. This is why it's important to leave just one queencell in the hive.
If you inspect and have an open queencell and several more that have a dark tip - indicating maturity, you could attempt to open them. If a queen scuttles out, no problem. Ensure then, that there are NO queencells in the hive. The queens will then not swarm but fight it out between themselves. If you have just one queencell remaining at this point and you are not sure what's happening, one option is to leave than on the site of the colony; allow the flyers to return and take away the remainder (an A/S). The queencell will have enough bees to look after it and the queen should emerge and mate. You can then decide what to do with the remainder. Alternatively, ensure there are no queencells and leave them to it. Check for a virgin in a week or so (a space prepared for the queen to lay in the centre of the broodnest is a good sign that a virgin is present). You could always put a frame of brood in at that time to see if they draw queencells as you have the original queen who should have returned to laying by then.

[NigelP]

If space was the only swarm precursor we would all have it nailed.
It ain't.
My local bees were (and still are) annual swarmers, it's written in their genes. You can house them in a cathedral and they will still swarm.
Collecting a swarm may seem like free bees, but they have already exhibited a trait that you don't want.
So I try to not collect swarms these days or if I have to then I give them away if I can (somonelses later problem).
More trouble than they are worth.