BBKA Forum

British Beekeepers Association Official Forum 

  • New Beekeepers

  • Please Ensure all sale of bees are checked & sold within the correct guidelines, State the location, Type and package/nuc/hive
Please Ensure all sale of bees are checked & sold within the correct guidelines, State the location, Type and package/nuc/hive
 #6811  by AndrewLD
 02 May 2020, 09:22
I think that sometimes there are those who want to have their cake and eat it - those who profess you can learn it from a book / the internet and others (often more experienced but not necessarily the wiser) who constantly say you cannot learn beekeeping from a book and the bees don't read books anyway. Beginners Courses are good, beginners course are rubbish. No wonder many aspiring beekeepers are confused and put off. The ideal situation is that the beginner finds a mentor through their association (we do try to pair people). That experienced beekeeper living in lovely chocolate box thatched cottage with roses round the door who patiently teaches their beginner all their wisdom acquired over decades of beekeeping .... Sadly there aren't many of those about and when we asked our 400+ members who was willing to mentor - only a few hardy souls came forward.
I don't think the BBKA book is much good, the beekeepers who wrote it may know their stuff but the content is a mess with topics dealt with all over the book in random order. They clearly weren't technical authors. Fortunately the Haynes team are and tied with two experienced beekeepers it was obvious which book to choose as a textbook for the beginner.
Aware that this is not just any old forum but the BBKA Forum, I am always conscious of a responsibility towards aspiring beekeepers who come to it seeking guidance. The BBKA tries to encourage a common content in courses and at least it gives a firm foundation to fall back on when things happen and you find yourself on your own. Of course you will gain experience and decide on your own style as you gain knowledge.
I read an Inquiry recently into an accident involving a well known acrobatic flying team - the creme de la creme. It delved deep into not only the accident but everything related to it including the most minute scrutiny of procedures. Seems that they had lost track of the basics in the belief that they were who they were and thus exceptions to the rule. There's a lesson there for some beekeepers, too busy doing the advanced stuff that they forget that the person setting out needs the basics first and take it from there.
 #6813  by NigelP
 02 May 2020, 09:57
IAndrew I agree that any education for beekeepers is better than no education. But misinformation and opinions taught is the worst of the lot. I see the problems as there are some good courses and some bad courses. The difficulty is knowing the good from the bad, something many people new to beekeeping will find difficult to distinguish.
I've yet to see any course ask their class what do they want from their beekeeping?
Answers can vary from just want to keep bees not interested in honey, want a little honey, want a lot of honey.
Each of those goals can be achieved but by different means, the means of which are never made clear.
 #6815  by Japey Edge
 02 May 2020, 10:34
Some beginner courses may be good, but the one I attended definitely was not. I didn't even get to see the bees. My first interaction with bees was with a nuc someone kindly gifted me. Transferring them from the nuc to my Abelo poly hive was my first experience. Unfortunately my wife recorded videos and a year later it's cringey to watch, but it makes her laugh :lol:

If all associations followed a basic guideline set out as a required standard - say a list of bullet points on a BBKA template - they could then add their region-specific content and experience in there and hopefully improve the courses a bit.

A team of beekeepers with 120 years of beekeeping knowledge and unfounded traditions but no teaching skills won't get my vote compared to a few with 5 years each but have committed themselves to learning the facts and being able to pass that on.

Maybe that's an unpopular opinion.
 #6816  by AndrewLD
 02 May 2020, 12:15
Japey Edge wrote:
02 May 2020, 10:34
If all associations followed a basic guideline set out as a required standard - say a list of bullet points on a BBKA template - they could then add their region-specific content and experience in there and hopefully improve the courses a bit.

A team of beekeepers with 120 years of beekeeping knowledge and unfounded traditions but no teaching skills won't get my vote compared to a few with 5 years each but have committed themselves to learning the facts and being able to pass that on.

Maybe that's an unpopular opinion.
No, I think that is perfectly valid. The BBKA have guidelines but obviously some associations do their own thing. In Cambridgeshire we set out to follow the Haynes manual with the reference pages up on screen. The biggest advantage is that trainees forget what was said five minutes ago so they need somewhere to catch up or in many cases we found they were reading the next chapter in advance. Could not agree more with your other point - beekeepers with just a few years experience remember what foxed them - what is required is a coordinator at each session picking up the errors and omissions in what is said and correcting them (gently) in subsequent session.

Whether your opinion is popular or not (and I agree with you) is in my view irrelevant. It's the end outcome that counts and we measured in it in how many took up beekeeping and were doing it 4-5 years on.
 #7023  by Steve 1972
 12 May 2020, 11:25
Japey Edge wrote:
02 May 2020, 10:34
Some beginner courses may be good, but the one I attended definitely was not. I didn't even get to see the bees. My first interaction with bees was with a nuc someone kindly gifted me. Transferring them from the nuc to my Abelo poly hive was my first experience. Unfortunately my wife recorded videos and a year later it's cringey to watch, but it makes her laugh :lol:

If all associations followed a basic guideline set out as a required standard - say a list of bullet points on a BBKA template - they could then add their region-specific content and experience in there and hopefully improve the courses a bit.

A team of beekeepers with 120 years of beekeeping knowledge and unfounded traditions but no teaching skills won't get my vote compared to a few with 5 years each but have committed themselves to learning the facts and being able to pass that on.

Maybe that's an unpopular opinion.
I have just read this Jazz and you are 100% on the money IMO.. ;)
 #7047  by Murox
 12 May 2020, 14:27
Japey Edge wrote:
02 May 2020, 10:34
Some beginner courses may be good, but the one I attended definitely was not. I didn't even get to see the bees. My first interaction with bees was with a nuc someone kindly gifted me. Transferring them from the nuc to my Abelo poly hive was my first experience. Unfortunately my wife recorded videos and a year later it's cringey to watch, but it makes her laugh :lol:
If all associations followed a basic guideline set out as a required standard - say a list of bullet points on a BBKA template - they could then add their region-specific content and experience in there and hopefully improve the courses a bit.
A team of beekeepers with 120 years of beekeeping knowledge and unfounded traditions but no teaching skills won't get my vote compared to a few with 5 years each but have committed themselves to learning the facts and being able to pass that on.
Maybe that's an unpopular opinion.
I do not disagree with you but I do think the point made about asking learners what they want/expect from beekeeping is crucial, and a 'standard' may not be appropriate. Rather beekeeping principles might be more suitable as a first short course. For example, I use a horizontal hive, others use Warre and some standardised vertical hives; beekeeping is not limited to just one system/technique, but the general principles could be set down as a first step to aid peoples thinking/reasoning rather push them down one route. When they have a better idea of what they actually want they will be ready to learn more specifics.