Help a newbie

[Newbee]

Hi all,

I’m new to beekeeping but have started with two hives and some advice from local beekeepers. One reoccurring theme that I am finding is that if you ask two beekeepers the same question you’ll often get at least two answers, but sometimes more!

I am also finding that lots of books and online advice is either contradictory (“don’t ever do this” v. “always do this”) and that it is also often quite vague and assumes some existing knowledge, even when pitched at newbie beekeepers like me. The combination of conflicting advice and less than clear written guidance is driving me slightly mad and making me very concerned about what to do to make sure that me bees are happy and healthy.

To give one example of conflicting advice: one experienced beekeeper tells me to treat for varroa and then feed using feedbee, the pollen substitute, and then some thick sugar syrup. Another says that feedbee isn’t required at all, and that thick sugar syrup in late August/September should be sufficient- but only one can be right surely, and I don’t want to risk my bees by guessing. They are also very unclear on quantities, as are the various books and online guides that I have been reading.

Any suggestions from the more experienced over feedbee v. sugar and on the quantity required of each for an 11 frame national hive, and do fellow newbie beekeepers share my frustration over conflicting advice and written material?

[DianeBees]

Thinking about what pollen is needed for - and knowing they can store it:
Are your bees bringing in pollen at the moment? Have they got plenty stored?

Pollen foods are usually given in spring by beekeepers who want to encourage plenty of early brood raising for oil seed rape crops.
it's horribly expensive and contains very little pollen. It's almost certainly not needed at this time of year.

There's lots of different figures for feeding and it's about a balance of stores for winter and having room to lay bees that will survive the winter.
Now is a good time to look at varroa treatments. If you've got no honey on then there's a lot more options available to you.

[Patrick]

Hi Newbie

Its a bit difficult to advise in your particular locations but all I can say is that I have never fed pollen or pollen substitute where I am in Somerset. Whether I should have or my bees might have done better at any given time if I had, who knows? For those two beekeepers you mention, there would have been different benefits in either approach - without either being necessarily "better". Depends what you are trying to achieve.

The only time I definitely think I should have fed pollen with hindsight was around the consistent wet weather we had for months on end in 2012 / 2013 and I ended up feeding syrup in the summer to keep them going and probably should have fed pollen / substitute as well. But that was pretty exceptional weather. As Diane says, usually it is referred to in the context of stimulative spring feeding to build up colonies for known early local nectar flows. There is risk inherent there that you build up large colonies and the weather intervenes and you are left with a big colony and no nectar to feed it. Also it may prompt earlier swarming than would otherwise occur.

Personally I choose to let bees build at their own speed in spring and with plenty of local willows natural pollen is normally available.

As regards conflicting advice - ain't that the truth! Beekeeping is very unusual in stockpersonship terms as we are trying to work with semi-domesticated or wild insects and their ways and motivations are not those of mammals such as ourselves . As such, since the dawn of time people have projected onto them their own personal beliefs and inferred things based on their own world view in the context of their times. As to what the bees think - who knows?

All I can suggest in your early days is find someone you like and respect as a local beekeeper and then follow what they do for a season and see how you get on. By all means do research, read books and make notes but don't feel obliged to do everything the first year - keep it simple. Your first or second season is quite busy enough trying to work out what is going on without overly complicating it and then not being sure what worked or didn't and why.

I work on the basis of expecting to feed 15l of "heavy" syrup to overwinter, but if I have removed all their stores by taking off supers I would feed a gallon in a rapid feeder as well as soon as taking supers off of there is no nectar flow left. Then treat for varroa, then feed for winter. They may suffer from delayed varroa treatment but they sure as heck will starve without any food.

Good luck and don't worry too much about your bees. They are often a lot more resilient than they are given credit for because (or despite of) some beekeeping practices.

[johnnie1uk]

Hi
Re your frustration over conflicting advice, I am also a newbee, but have come the conclusion that there is no single answer to anything to do with bees, what I do is look at all the info I can glean regarding a situation then choose what I think would be logically right for the bees, give it a try and if it things still are not as they should be try something else. What I try to keep in mind is that the bees really are in control and we are just helping them to have things run smoothly.

[Patrick]

Wise words Johnnie.

To which I would only add be cautious of mixing up too many ideas at once when starting out. It is quite possible to over manage bees and some ideas require a sequence of events to be followed to have a chance of working. Authors are not noted for admitting things don’t work every season for every colony.

Sadly some of the stuff you read is not based on experience of doing it so you don’t always get the reality check.

I have tried lots of things and equipment over the years and enjoyed doing so. I am still trying new things but boy oh boy we all do over complicate stuff sometimes!

[AdamD]

Firstly, my view is that you should not need to use a pollen substitute unless you are experiencing extreme conditions. Quite simply, if your apiary is in the wrong place and the bees cannot get the food they need, you need to move the bees rather than bring food to them!
There are occasions where a food supplement may be beneficial however; in March this year I had a quick peek at some colonies - when the weather was really too cool to do so, and some had no brood as they had no pollen. They corrected for the problem for themselves in due course.
I did a small experiment a number of years ago with a home made pollen substitute and saw no difference between those that had it and those that didn't.


I think the beauty of a forum such as this is that the enquirer will get a number of answers - as you do from asking any number of beekeepers. And like bees dancing on a swarm to decide upon a new nest-site, you can see a consensus developing - or at least you have enough information on which to make an informed decision yourself.
And yes, some book are old and out of date or odd or wrong in parts - and some Youtube videos are downright awful!

[Justabeekeeper]

Pollen substitute isn't really needed in autumn feeding as the bees will collect lots of it themselves if there is any ofc, you'll see it in the cells. If there isn't any then maybe use a substitute or move the bees.
I think from memory it's about 1 lb of pollen used over winter.

Syrup/honey needs to be around 40lbs as a rough guide some less some more.
Don't over complicate things that's a pitfall.
The thick or thin syrup is pretty irrelevant too. Randy Oliver's research showed little difference just with the thin syrup you'll have to feed more and it goes mouldy easier so don't get too obsessed with really accurate measuring.

If you work on thicker syrup so roughly 2 kg to 1.3 ltr of water then you'll need to feed about a gallon to start BUT this depends on what stores are in the brood box. Sorry a lot does come with experience in this hobby.
Mine took between 1 and 2 gallons depending on the site last year.
There is a pdf on feeding I have it somewhere on my computer I think it's around 15 kg of sugar made into heavy syrup per hive that makes around 40lbs of stores when processed, again I'm relying on my tattered memory I'll have a look for it.
So 8 frames of stores in a standard national leaving 3 to lay in, it's tight, and about 5 frames in a 14x12 so a more forgiving box. If your worried then you could put a super under the National box to make your life easier and remove the worry of lack of space. I do .
Don't forget the Ivy flow too. This has caught me out in the past also.

Yes, now is the time to treat for varroa if you've removed any supers you intend to extract.

Welcome to beekeeping where no two beekeepers agree on the same way of doing things, it's only going to get worse as the questions asked become more involved. Lol.

[charliebravo]

Sometimes one beekeeper will give you more than 5 answers because that's how many options there are.
Often closing the hive up, sitting down and having a cup of tea and a think is the best thing to do.

[nealh]

Some of my colonies I have removed brood frames of pollen due to pollen blocking and the copious amounts being brought back.

[Newbee]

Thanks for all the helpful advice and comments, which is much appreciated. I am starting to realise that beekeeping is as much an art as a science, and I will have to learn to read my bees, with much trial and error and some inevitable mistakes along the way!

Thanks,

Newbee