Incorporating a standard national nucleus hive into a 14 x 12 brood box

[Yorkbees84]

Hi All

I will shortly be taking receipt of a nucleus, however, whilst the frames they're coming on are standard national frames, my hive has a 14 x 12 brood box. I understand that I need to insert the nucleus frames into the centre of the brood box but how would you go about swapping them out for the 14 x 12 frames over time? Has anyone done this?

[Alfred]

One camp would say that would be an ideal opportunity for a complete comb change .
Shake the bees off onto new frames and foundation for a chance to get plague and pestilence to a low level.

Another camp would not.

Welcome to beekeeping.......

[NigelP]

This "camp" would firmly say that a complete comb change is a big stress on the bees. and big no no.
And if you bought a nuc full of plague and pestilence then I'd ask for my money back. They should be disease free, so putting them all on fresh comb is not going to make them any more disease free....sorry Alfred.

Easy way is just use as is, expect drone comb to be drawn underneath. After queen starts laying in new frames move your standard sized frames to the outside and when all all the bees have emerged remove. Frames with pollen or stores use if they need them but disposes as you want.
There are other ways as I'm sure you are about to hear /wry grin/

[AdamD]

I'll briefly suggest two options for consideration or for further questions...

1) Bailey comb exchange if you can borrow a spare brood box. (You get the bees to draw the 14 x 12 foundation and put the queen on the larger frames with an excluder between boxes so over 3 weeks the brood emerges in the unwanted frames and moves up to the 14 x 12 ones with the queen).

2)Keep the deep combs in the 14 x 12 box - but to one side (you could also put something under them that stops comb being drawn). Allow the bees to fill the 14 x 12 brood box in the usual way, as they draw foundation, however you'll have the shallower combs to one side so next spring some of them can be removed.

[AndrewLD]

The problem with a block of National deep frames in a 14x12 is that there is no guarantee that they will just draw drone brood straight down underneath and I have experienced a situation in which they decided to go cold way when the frames above were warm way Couldn't get any thing out at all and in the end I had to live with a colony I couldn't inspect until I could get in from underneath and cut out the wild comb (it was very pretty though).

I wish I had had the sense to do as Adam has suggested. You could have every other frame to draw as drone comb underneath and pin something to the bottom of the other 2/3 frames (correx sheet made into a rectangular tube and drawing pinned to the bottom bars perhaps???) then you could ensure they draw the way you want them to..........

[Alfred]

This "camp" would firmly say that a complete comb change is a big stress on the bees. and big no no.
And if you bought a nuc full of plague and pestilence then I'd ask for my money back. They should be disease free, so putting them all on fresh comb is not going to make them any more disease free....sorry Alfred.

Easy way is just use as is, expect drone comb to be drawn underneath. After queen starts laying in new frames move your standard sized frames to the outside and when all all the bees have emerged remove. Frames with pollen or stores use if they need them but disposes as you want.
There are other ways as I'm sure you are about to hear /wry grin/

Ha ha
Also, York bees ,avoid disclosing anything you read in the bbka journal on the forum
(Combchange,matchsticks etc)

[AdamD]

Check out a Bailey comb exchange here:-
https://www.norfolkbee.co.uk/beekeepers-FAQ/bailey-comb-exchange

[Patrick]

Rather than having to fix strips onto frames already covered in bees, which might be a bit tricky, I think I would be tempted to make the rectangular box Adam suggests the width of five frames and height up to just below where the BS frames come to. That gets past the drone comb issue and can be made up in advance then the frames just dropped in.

[AndrewLD]

and just shunt the box along as you move the frames to the end? I am not pretending that my "solution" was any good but I can see two problems with the box.
1. Careful measurement down to the OMF - not critical perhaps as bees will tolerate more than a beespace under the brood frames.
2. When you shunt the box along as you move the frames towards the end you'll presumably have to put in a different size of box as you remove frames and put in 14x12's.
Do you need to put in all six/five frames. I am struggling to remember what I actually did when I converted from National deep to 14x12 - seems a nightmare ago.

[AdamD]

The box under the frames isn't a perfect solution however once the brood nest is in the middle of the hive on the 14 x 12 frames, we would hope that the frames at the side would not get too much comb underneath them once the box under and a couple of them had been removed. One or two frames with drone comb underneath is not too much of a problem. If the colony were to finish up without brood on these shallow frames (Which are called Deep ones, just to add confusion), they could be moved away or put on the outside of the 14 x 12's.. Yes it's a bit messy.
A Bailey comb exchange may be the best option. Job done.