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General Q&A, Bee chat and only Bee chat please
 #5421  by NigelP
 09 Jan 2020, 14:40
Neilkristopher wrote:
09 Jan 2020, 08:50
. I secretly want my own sparkling brand new hive, all singing all dancing but my head is saying look at a second hand one. I think I will end up buying new to be honest.
Treat yourself and your bees to brand new poly hive. Far cheaper than 1st class wood and already insulated. When you know a bit about bees you will soon realise that heat conservation is quite important as they need to generate their own heat to survive.
 #5422  by AndrewLD
 09 Jan 2020, 16:12
Oooohhh, this is fun :D

Great advice from Patrick; bee tops as opposed to a full suit are good for some things when you know what you are doing but otherwise a bad choice for a beginner unless you tuck them into your trousers and then a bee is sure to find your trouser pockets...
You could economise on gloves. I don't mean no gloves but get some of the nitrile coated ultra tough from Thorne. At £2-50pr they are a lot cheaper than my posh goatskin leather gloves. And don't go for the thick cow-hide gloves you won't be able to feel a bee under your glove and if you squish one that sets the others off :oops:
 #5423  by Japey Edge
 09 Jan 2020, 18:21
As someone who is going into their second year, I would say the following:

1. All my hives are poly and I like them. So far they've worked great. But I have no comparison to make as I have no wood hives. Abelo poly hives are great and easy to work with
2. Clear crown boards are fantastic - you can see what's going on before you crack it off and open up. Also great for checking on them without opening up
3. Gloves - I have a pair of marigolds which I tuck under my sleeves. I then stick some blue nitriles on top and make sure they're well over my jacket cuff. Then if they get heavy with propolis I switch out the nitriles while not exposing my hands to possible stings. Also it's thin enough to feel what's going on. I did go with just nitriles but I got a couple of stings on one hand within seconds and didn't enjoy the experience
4. Have a designated "Workshop" - whether that's a garage or the dining room table you'll need somewhere to work :-)

Again, first year guy so I'm only putting what these experienced guys have forgotten :lol: ;)
 #5424  by thewoodgatherer
 09 Jan 2020, 19:40
I aim to buy the best quality floors, brood and roof but you can get away with cheaper supers even pine ones as they can spend most of the year in the dry stored away somewhere😉
 #5432  by Neilkristopher
 10 Jan 2020, 20:22
Wow! So much helpful advice that you can’t get from a book, thank you! Gives me lots to think about.
Whatever I decide to buy, I’ve already decided my frames would all be brand new. I am more than happy to spend time constructing the whole hive so just the frames shouldn’t be too much trouble. I also like the idea of a dedicated area (perhaps my own shed.... how exciting) although my partner might not agree!) I have a nuc on order which as you said will come with 5 or 6 frames (I can’t remember). The polys sound interesting but part of me likes the idea of traditional wood. Just wondering why so many beekeepers stick to wood rather than the cheaper but more insulting poly? Perhaps just tradition. If I go for wood it’ll be British Cedar at the very least. I’m gonna stick to the main retailers, no eBay (unless it’s the retailers selling via there), a full all-in-one suit and thanks for the info on the gloves; hadn’t considered that.
With regards to the bee escapes, are you talking about clearing the supers during honey harvest? If so, why do some people not agree with this and what is the alternative? (Again, something the books don’t tell you) Thanks Patrick, I won’t be buying too much stuff to start with. Hive, all in one, hive tool, gloves and smoker, that was my plan. It’s already gonna cost a significant amount. Next you’ll be telling me I have to have a second hive ready on standby 😉! Thank you so much. Learnt so much from you already and I’ve not even started! Neil.
 #5434  by Patrick
 10 Jan 2020, 23:50
Its what the forum is for Neil ;) . I've picked up shed loads from others on here.

The bit about the escapes was probably referring specifically to the Porter type mentioned raher than clearing per se.

They are a quite traditional design from the 1890's and are beguilingly available. I use them occasionally now and again over the years and always with frustratingly mixed results. IMHO they are significantly inferior to either the plastic rhombus escape type or just brushing bees off each frame in the supers and getting on with it - which with Porters you often end up doing anyway in the interests of domestic harmony. I think my annoyance is mainly with myself that I keep believing the outcome might be any different from the last time I did it. Rather like the mornings after all night drinking reunions with old mates from your youth.

As to why most beekeepers still mainly use wood - I suspect you are right Neil, tradition plays a big part. However they do still work very well, so are not an inferior choice. Poly hives are maybe just another good option to consider, as Nigel who has more experience with them than me suggested?
 #5435  by Neilkristopher
 11 Jan 2020, 08:30
Hi Patrick. Thanks for clearing that up. I was looking at the little plastic ones that slot in when you need them. I think they have a little metal ‘spring’ kind of thing that stops them coming back in. Hopefully they’re ok.

I had a quick look at the poly and they’re not that much cheaper than a British cedar hive. My concern is that they’re quite soft so a strap or knock might damage them. I may be wrong but I think I’m going to stick to wood. Here on the coast in Cornwall, although it’s wet and windy, we very rarely get a frost so hopefully the bees will keep themselves warm enough in a wooden National. Thanks again. Loads to learn to I’m sure you’ll hear from me again soon!
 #5436  by AndrewLD
 11 Jan 2020, 09:49
Neilkristopher wrote:
10 Jan 2020, 20:22
If I go for wood it’ll be British Cedar at the very least.
Next you’ll be telling me I have to have a second hive ready on standby 😉! Thank you so much. Learnt so much from you already and I’ve not even started! Neil.
British Cedar - Cornwall; I think I'd treat the wood and be careful the treatment is bee-friendly (see label on can). Recommend Danish Oil from B&Q.
We always tell our beginners that you need a 50% reserve of hives rounded up to the nearest whole number. Your NUC is going grow and even if it doesn't swarm in the first year you'll need to do swarm control in the second.
If you don't have a copy already, I thoroughly recommend the Haynes Bee Manual.
 #5437  by NigelP
 11 Jan 2020, 10:37
Patrick wrote:
09 Jan 2020, 12:25
Completely agree with Andrew LD regarding secondhand brood frames and combs, should have clarified that. If they are present don't consider them part of the sale and either bin them or burn them (old beeswax comb makes great firelighters). Treat yourself to new frames (its a useful skill to acquire putting them together and fresh foundation. If you are buying a nuc they should come with 5 or 6 frames with drawn comb already
But aren't the frames with comb and bees on also second hand? The only difference is they have some bees on them.
I'd say talk to the seller and see what he has to say about the history of the frames before burning. Drawn comb is worth it's weight in gold. I once bought 10 second hand supers with drawn frames that had last been used a few years previous. They were fine.
What breaks my heart is the brood frames clogged with pollen sat in my bee shed that are slowly going mouldy and will have to be replaced. I was hoping storing them indoors might have encouraged Mr. and Mrs Pollen beetle to get active....but no such luck.

If anyone has a solution to clearing pollen clogged frames I'd be very interested to hear it.
 #5439  by Patrick
 11 Jan 2020, 16:22
If I knew the seller I might do exactly the same with super combs Nigel, but that is down the line for Neil maybe?

As I see it, the frames supplied by the nuc seller would be from a beekeeper and one who hopefully cared about their reputation, so hopefully they would be at least okay. The problem with second hand kit bought by beginners is that the contact is often word of mouth friend-of -friend contacts and around here, that often means relatives of departed beekeepers selling off stuff that has been hanging around a while. Boxes can be brought back to sound condition easily as Andrew detailed, but combs are what they are. When neither seller nor buyer (yet) has actually kept bees themselves, making a valued judgement about old drawn comb is problematic and its in the sellers interest to be "positive". Neither party is likely to know what did the bees last on them died of, what treatments did the beekeeper use, how much of the comb area is actually serviceable and what normal looks like (area of drone cells, holes in the combs, old queen cell scallops, gaps along sides and above bottom bars, chalk brood mummies, clogged pollen that has hardened, wax moth damage whatever.

When I started the first thing I wanted to do was feed bees and what better thing to see is them using it to draw some new combs, expand and lay them up? Of course they will expand faster on already drawn good comb if you have it, but not very helpfully if the comb supplied is already half useless. I have been surprised at what some beekeepers consider acceptable condition brood combs, let alone their non-beekeeping relatives.

So yes I agree if you can make a useful judgement on comb condition, then make it at a glance. But if you are unsure, just make the decision easy for yourself and focus on the woodwork.