BBKA Forum

Okay next myth..

Clipped queens are considered damaged” and so wiil be superceded. Tosh.

Also see: clipped queens “allow you to do ten day inspections”. Clipping queens is about a lot more than allowing you to just inspect a couple of days later. I consider the single most important swarm management thing you can do imho. One for another thread no doubt.

Good to see some thinking and some science coming to the fore.
Still haven't quite grasped from Chris's hard research what the full actual advantages are....vs all that unnecessary energy expenditure in producing new comb
What non of the authors of those papers considered was the usability of the cells in old comb vs new comb. You get damaged cells/cells with old hard pollen which are unusable for brood rearing. A puzzling omission from the conclusions which (being picky here ) showed there wasn't an enormous amount of difference, although differences their were. Not sure how africanised bees and varroa correlates to UK bees and old comb...but all interesting stuff....and something that (until Chris pointed it out) has never been used by any other authors as a rationale for using newer comb....I suggest the energetics of drawing new comb vs using old comb might make the differences less meaningful in a practical way.


Yes Demaree (and Snelgrove) are both methods I use for swarm control on double brood.But they are not purported as swarm control methods for double brood. I'm struggling to find any writings that specifically say this is a good method to use when on double brood as you don't need to bring along an extra brood box....as already there....although there are and can be problems related to too many frames of brood that you need to hive some off in other hives..

Patrick wrote: ↑

31 Mar 2019, 14:01

Also see: clipped queens “allow you to do ten day inspections”.

YUp....and I'll add in an other one....It takes 6 days from a hatched egg to a sealed queen cell and loss of primary swarm (often but not always). So why are 7 day inspection intervals universally touted?
To me it's at least a day too long....

Not so much folklore but classic misunderstanding or lack of a universal description to understand.....
"I have a strong colony"
Discuss

NigelP wrote: ↑

31 Mar 2019, 16:51

Still haven't quite grasped from Chris's hard research what the full actual advantages are....vs all that unnecessary energy expenditure in producing new comb

Now you are moving onto a different arguement NP, one which I kind of agree with you. The research appears to demonstrate that the cells do get smaller and new comb is healthier, as for the advantages or value, thats another matter. when I very quickly read them, I felt it did prove the point but not in a meaningful way. i was left thinking that there only seems a very small benefit and when you look at time/resources used, why bother or it wasnt worth it really.

Patrick wrote: ↑

31 Mar 2019, 14:01

Okay next myth..

Clipped queens are considered damaged” and so wiil be superceded. Tosh.

Also see: clipped queens “allow you to do ten day inspections”. Clipping queens is about a lot more than allowing you to just inspect a couple of days later. I consider the single most important swarm management thing you can do imho. One for another thread no doubt.

You and NP have got my attention on this Patrick, go on then, start another thread and explain your strategy. this is some thing I intend to do this year and I want to know about other folks ideas on it and how they implement it into inspection regimes.

I never really got on top of swarming until I started clipping queens. I have had clipped queens continue for several years so I agree with Patrick it does them no harm.

Most people are put off because they think it difficult and involves picking up and handling queens. All you need is a one handed queen catcher and a pair of fine scissors. With the queen in the queen catcher rotate the plunger so one of her wings sticks out through a gap. Then cut off about the last one third of one wing. It really is quick and easy especially if you use sprung scissors.

There are several outcomes at swarming time. I have seen video showing the clipped queen on the landing board but then going back into the hive and then coming out and back in several times but never trying to fly. The swarm flies around for a while and may settle but then comes back. Sometimes the queen flies a short way but ends up in a small clump of bees on the ground and the bees go back. The queen can be picked up and set up in a nuc if wanted or squashed if not. Often you never find the old queen probably because she flies a bit further and gets lost in the undergrowth somewhere or gets predated. The main point is the bees come back and you then have several days to think through your options for the queen cells. It means you can be far more relaxed about inspections. Of course if you really want to keep your queen then you need to take action before they swarm and put her somewhere safe.

thanks Jim. thats good to hear, so do you do 14 day inspections or less say 10 days?

NigelP wrote: ↑

31 Mar 2019, 17:02

YUp....and I'll add in an other one....It takes 6 days from a hatched egg to a sealed queen cell and loss of primary swarm (often but not always). So why are 7 day inspection intervals universally touted?
To me it's at least a day too long....

Because most people work during the week and can't take time off.

Chris in the swarming season I still do a nominal 7 day inspection. That is I aim to inspect every 7 days but if the weather is poor or there is something else on or there are children out playing next door I defer it. As well as trying to identify swarming status it is also necessary to check stores and hopefully add supers or remove any capped honey.

As Diane says 7 day inspections are for those who work. I have the luxury of being retired.