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General Q&A, Bee chat and only Bee chat please
 #3923  by AdamD
 06 Jul 2019, 09:27
Yes, I use nail scissors which are kept for the purpose. When I inspect I generally have a marker pen or two in my RH pocket with the scissors and a couple of queen cages in my left pocket plus my phone for the odd picture and a small LED torch if it's evening.
I have a crown of thornes for marking queens but only used it once or twice for marking. I have read that beekeepers try to manipulate to get a wing sticking through so it can be clipped. The pins are sharp and will poke into your leg if in a pocket and go into the comb surprisingly easily so it's easy to squash the queen down onto the comb if you are not too careful. I have never used the queen catchers that are available.

The technique for picking us the queen is to grab (gently) the wings with thumb and forefinger as the queen is on the comb and then move the queen to my left hand - I form a triangle with my thumb and1st and 2nd fingers. Some people place the queen on the thumb and then hold the legs on either side with the 1st and 2nd fingers. I clip first and then mark with a Posca pen. I clip about 1/3 to 1/2 of one large wing which is enough to stop her flying. Sometimes she will poke a leg up so you need to be sure that you don't trim a leg off! After marking she goes straight down onto the comb again. There is no need to wait for the paint to dry. You may see in books that beekeepers used to use Humbrol model paint and dab it onto the thorax with the head of a matchstick. As the stuff stunk, I can see why you would need to wait a while with that.
Young queens will struggle so I tend to wait for a few weeks before picking them up as they are inclined to fly off. They will usually come back in a few moments. But not always :( Older girls are calmer.

You can't pick up a queen with welding gautlets which some suppliers sell. THIN washing up gloves are OK or nitrile disposables. Or go 'commando' with nothing on your hands.
The queen won't sting you - that's reserved for other queens.

If it's a hot day and you press the nib of a posca, it can expel ink due to expansion, so always check first - I put a spot on my hand to ensure that it's working OK.

Hope this helps
 #3928  by Patrick
 06 Jul 2019, 12:23
I keep a pair of fine nosed straight scissors in my bee box that are only used for clipping wings.

The only criteria is that they are sharp (so making a clean cut) and relatively small bladed ( to go between the queens abdomen and the wing. It’s my second or third inspection of the season job to go through all colonies marking and clipping Queens. I don’t bother to clip this seasons queens, as they “shouldn’t “ swarm the same season. Anything found clipped is at least a second year queen and marked last years colour and due for replacement. Anything fully winged is last year mid season new queen or a supercedure and clipped ready for a possibles day r swarm attempt in the coming season.

I actually recommend wearing nitriles to clip if that is what is what you are used to. Handling queens the first time whilst also handling bees with bare hands the first time is bonkers and totally unnecessary. Queens won’t sting, but workers which may and will becinterested in the queen and could bother you. Nitrile gloves as long as they are clean, stop your sweaty hands getting unwelcome attention. Wait until the queen is mid frame and walking away from your leading hand then simply “swoop” down and pick her up. Simples! As long as you pick her up by wings or thorax / head end, no harm will come of it.
 #3930  by Adam Bee
 06 Jul 2019, 12:57
So, do I have this correct:

The reason for clipping the queen is to prevent a full swarm if swarm cells are missed? So she "swarms" but can't go far, and the host that goes with here can't get far from the hive?

Then what happens? How do you reunite the swarmed host and the original colony? What do you do with the swarmed queen? Squish?
 #3931  by AdamD
 06 Jul 2019, 13:40
Alfred wrote:
06 Jul 2019, 12:51
Could you guys elaborate on the finger positions and where you hold her while clipping/marking.
The queen is transferred to the left hand and held between the thumb and first two fingers - for me, I generally have the queen's feet resting on my middle finger with the thumb and forefinger on either side. Sometimes she will wriggle and try to get away and it's a bit of an art to reposition her in your fingers - obviously you don't want to squeeze her too much!

A point about marking - it can be done on the comb too. If you hold her down - gently of course - on to the frame with your thumb and index finger, a 1/2 second dab of posca pen and she can be released. If the pen is primed and ready to go, it's really a quick job.
 #3932  by Japey Edge
 06 Jul 2019, 13:54
Alfred wrote:
06 Jul 2019, 12:51
Could you guys elaborate on the finger positions and where you hold her while clipping/marking.
If one of the experienced beeks could take a pic of them doing this to a drone it would be awesome and very much appreciated
 #3933  by AdamD
 06 Jul 2019, 13:56
Adam Bee wrote:
06 Jul 2019, 12:57
So, do I have this correct:

The reason for clipping the queen is to prevent a full swarm if swarm cells are missed? So she "swarms" but can't go far, and the host that goes with here can't get far from the hive?

Then what happens? How do you reunite the swarmed host and the original colony? What do you do with the swarmed queen? Squish?
When a colony swarms with a clipped queen the workers will come back, as you point out. So what happens to the queen? It's not uncommon for her to crawl under the hive and the swarm will stay with her if that happens. She might walk away in which case the bees will leave her and return. Occasionally you'll find her on the grass with a small clump of bees with her. One time the queen had hopped/skipped a few times so there were little clusters of bees every few feet, hanging onto her pheromone that she had left behind. On one occasion a queen walked into a nuc that was a few feet away. I found her at the back of the nuc that evening with the virgin queen still in the hive. With a WBC, the queen can crawl up between the lift and the boxes taking the bees with her.
If you find the queen on the grass, beware if you cage her and put her in the back of the car as the bees may follow!
A swarm queen will probably still have some use and for example, may have swarmed due to lack of space rather than just being swarmy.

After a while the swarming bees will return to the hive leaving the queen relatively alone. You can pop her into a mini-nuc with some bees from the hive for safe-keeping or if you can find her whilst the swarm is going on, you can pop her in a box or nuc or hive and the swarming bees will follow. Or you can move the hive away and put her back in and the swarming bees and flyers will return to the old site. With the supers on top you have the same as an artificial swarm but more bees as the swarm will also contain younger bees and not just the flyers that you would have in an A/S if you did it yourself. If the swarm collects under the hive, then the lot can be 'banged' into a box or hive to do what you wish with them.

Swarms are excellent at drawing comb as they have younger wax-producing bees in the mix, not just the older flyers. The comb is always worker - and it's useful to have spare drawn comb available. If you house a big swarm in a hive with foundation and feed it, you'll get pretty much a brood box of excellently drawn comb in a couple of weeks.

I tend to keep 'spare' and old queens as you never know what you might need them for - possibly as a donation to someone else or if the swarmed colony fails to raise a laying queen, she can be popped back in.

I hope this helps.
 #3941  by Patrick
 06 Jul 2019, 18:30
The problem of swarm inspections is best explained by a text book example. Let’s say for argument sake queen and workers depart as soon as first cell is sealed. You inspect Saturdays and miss eggs in queen cups, they will have sealed cells and have swarmed out by the next inspection. In practice, I think the first day of larva in jelly is actually even easier to miss than eggs. You lose queen and workers. If clipped, workers return to hive and await first cell to emerge. You inspect following Saturday and find sealed cells but all the bees are still there. The first cell may even not emerge until after the following inspection the next Saturday - so you have plenty of time to react and still retain bees.

With a clipped queen, my experience is actually they do not usually swarm out when the first cell is sealed - or anything close to it. I don’t know why, but they seem to sense the queen is not as mobile . So in practice you just have your cake and still get to eat it. I do lose clipped queens occasionally but far more often I have sealed cells and queeny still merrily wandering about.

A clipped queen also means that some operations such as splits where transferring the queen by mistake as well as a cell could lead to a swarm are less of a risk. If you transfer her as well by mistake the worst that happens is they break down the cell and leave the queen. If you protect the cell with foil, chances are you get an induced supercedure - same outcome as originally intended.

Clipping is a one off operation matter of minutes then it’s done. The only time not to do it is inadvertently to a virgin queen before she has mated. Yes I did.. :D
 #3943  by Alfred
 06 Jul 2019, 19:48
I'm in catch 22
I'd like to get these little blighters marked so I can find them for maintenance but I will have a job finding them.
Like the time I went to the army surplus store and asked if they had any Stealth jackets.
He said he had hundreds but could never find any....
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