Maqs

[thewoodgatherer]

Just about to treat my hives with Maqs for the first time ever having used other methods with varying results. Having just read the scientificbeekeeping article last night I’m having second thoughts, knocking down varroa levels sounds good to me but Maqs sounds a bit too destructive. Just wondering what others have found using it.

[AdamD]

When MAQS first came out, I tried it on one colony and it worked fine. Since then I have used it with mixed results. I used it on two colonies where one queen was lost and in another, supercedure cells were started. A year or two later I used it on a colony (double brood Paynes) and after a few hours bees were crawling out of the hive to die on the grass. I then jammed a (3mm) hive tool between the two boxes to give some extra ventillation. Some say that they think that the formulation has changed since that time but I have no knowledge of that. I have used it since without issue. However it doesn't keep very long so if you have spare stuff it might be out of date when you want to use it in the next season. The quick knock-down may have advantages if a colony has a heavy varroa infestation that needs dealing with quickly.

Others say the stuff is fine however I have my concerns and would not rush out to use it from my experience.

(I have just tried to find instructions on the NOD global website - but was directed to information about New Zealand instead when I searched; you need to find the eu website which isn't a (safe) https site and I couldn't find a link to it from the main one).

[AndrewLD]

I use MAQ's in an emergency only - and then it is very useful because it is quick and can be used with supers on the hive (the only authorised treatment),
It is quick because it is a powerful vapour that can penetrate cells to kill the varroa inside (>75% are in the cells?).
But it is very important to follow the instructions regarding full width ventilation etc and that in itself can pose a problem if lots of robbers are around at this time of year.
Last time I checked the half-dose treatment hadn't been authorised in the UK but it is notable that there is one!
You need to read the more comprehensive on-line instructions and not just those on the box. For instance; "the bees should have their affairs in order" (I think I know what that means) and any inspection should have been done days earlier. The insertion of the pads is the only and minimal disturbance that should be done on that occasion.
Read between the lines - it is nasty stuff. It has its place but not as a first choice treatment, why not use Apivar?

[thewoodgatherer]

I use MAQ's in an emergency only - and then it is very useful because it is quick and can be used with supers on the hive (the only authorised treatment),
It is quick because it is a powerful vapour that can penetrate cells to kill the varroa inside (>75% are in the cells?).
But it is very important to follow the instructions regarding full width ventilation etc and that in itself can pose a problem if lots of robbers are around at this time of year.
Last time I checked the half-dose treatment hadn't been authorised in the UK but it is notable that there is one!
You need to read the more comprehensive on-line instructions and not just those on the box. For instance; "the bees should have their affairs in order" (I think I know what that means) and any inspection should have been done days earlier. The insertion of the pads is the only and minimal disturbance that should be done on that occasion.
Read between the lines - it is nasty stuff. It has its place but not as a first choice treatment, why not use Apivar?

Thanks for that- Apivar- simple answer to that is i don't want any non organic residual in my wax as I sell it for wraps etc. Also I under super and don't want any in the supers, i could withdraw supers and put them back but its all hassle, local beek who has been keeping a lot longer than me swears by the stuff but I'm now not sure, seams a bit like napalm to eradicate rats.

[Patrick]

Just about to treat my hives with Maqs for the first time ever having used other methods with varying results..

I cannot advise whether to use a treatment on your bees or not but simply share my experience to date. I have used it since it came out a few years ago on all my hives, which are a couple of different size boxes and in several configurations. No issues to date aside from queens going off lay, but that is only for a limited duration of treatment.

The advice to read the instructions carefully is a good one. The most critical thing in my view is the ambient weather temperature. If forecast for the week ahead is in the mid upper twenties C simply hold off and wait for a cooler spell. Simples. If all supers are off, I replace an empty one on top of a single brood chamber. I leave open mesh floor open. The suggestion to offset boxes to allow more ventilation or leave entrances wide open is simply impossible in a location like my main apiary with so many constantly hawking wasps. As long as treated in cooler weather, it has proved unnecessary.

If you treat in a hot spell the sublimation is excessive, so simply don’t do it. The positives are it is only on for a week and it is effective at lower temperatures. I am using Apiguard this year as a rotation and the long period of treatment is already proving a pain. I may switch to yet another next year.

[thewoodgatherer]

Just about to treat my hives with Maqs for the first time ever having used other methods with varying results..

I cannot advise whether to use a treatment on your bees or not but simply share my experience to date. I have used it since it came out a few years ago on all my hives, which are a couple of different size boxes and in several configurations. No issues to date aside from queens going off lay, but that is only for a limited duration of treatment.

The advice to read the instructions carefully is a good one. The most critical thing in my view is the ambient weather temperature. If forecast for the week ahead is in the mid upper twenties C simply hold off and wait for a cooler spell. Simples. If all supers are off, I replace an empty one on top of a single brood chamber. I leave open mesh floor open. The suggestion to offset boxes to allow more ventilation or leave entrances wide open is simply impossible in a location like my main apiary with so many constantly hawking wasps. As long as treated in cooler weather, it has proved unnecessary.

If you treat in a hot spell the sublimation is excessive, so simply don’t do it. The positives are it is only on for a week and it is effective at lower temperatures. I am using Apiguard this year as a rotation and the long period of treatment is already proving a pain. I may switch to yet another next year.

Thanks for that Patrick, i have studied instructions and they say to leave inspection board in but like you say I will try with board out, I wont have any idea of initial drop but I can live with that. I have been using both Apiguard and Apilife var for a number of years as autumn treatment but last year the results were so poor that I ended up with multiple 5 day OA vaping's to do the job properly.

[NigelP]

Those thymol treatments only work in warm weather, autumn is usually too cool for them be effective. Certainly is in my area.
I'd be more worried about residual contamination in wax from external foraging. I have a paper somewhere that analysed pesticides found in bees wax (Holland I think) and they found the lot, including some that were banned in the EU.
I'm being lazy this year and going for Apivar, rather than my usual vaping, which, even with a sublimox, can be time consuming and not always effective.
I've never considered using MAQs due to their side effects and difficulty in using with hive sizes/temperatures etc. Although I did come across some work that suggested it only penetrated capping s at high temps....the very conditions you don't want to be using it...make of that what you will.

[Patrick]

Down here we are likely to have temps above 15 degrees for a while yet hopefully, but not indefinitely. I too wondered about the blocked off floor or not Woodgatherer.

Apiguard state it must be in and also needs higher temps, so one can assume the sublimation is more gradual. MAQs instructions make much of increased ventilation and the risk of over rapid sublimation and I did read somewhere where the efficacy was not believed not significantly reduced by being left open.

In truth, I was making a merit of necessity since I build my own OMF’s with permanent restricted entrances and no insert, as I stopped monitoring drops many years ago ( yes, I know. I will go straight to jail and not collect £200).

In case you are wondering how then I blocked off the floor when using Apiguard, I put a fertiliser sack between the floor and the stand. Not elegant but did the job.

I remember a presentation by Susan Cobey on US residuals in wax. Some of the stuff was amazing, but modern technology can of course detect things in very small amounts indeed.

[AndrewLD]

Those thymol treatments only work in warm weather, autumn is usually too cool for them be effective. Certainly is in my area.

Just to be clear; your reference to thymol is with regard to Apiguard and the like and not MAQ's, which is formic acid.
Interesting to note that whilst Apiguard needs >15 up to 35degC, MAQ's can be used from >10 up to 29 degC. So MAQ's can be an option in Autumn or early Spring.
I think Patrick makes an excellent point - the user needs to adapt to the conditions and perhaps hold off. I have taken Apiguard off before now when the temperature hit the 30's and the bees were clearly distressed.

[NigelP]

Just to be clear; your reference to thymol is with regard to Apiguard and the like and not MAQ's,

Yup, you've got it. I was replying to the previous post of Woodgatherers where he talked about using Apiguard and Apilife var, both utilise Thymol.
What made you think I might be implying that MAQs was also thymol based?