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General Q&A, Bee chat and only Bee chat please
 #8295  by Dave_Bristol
 20 Jul 2020, 14:41
Interesting to read these posts here. There's a swarm/colony in up my chimney now, arrived 6 weeks ago. I thought they'd move on but they've chosen to stay.
Well I'm happy to let them stay, tbh. I don't use the chimney at all, but my neighbour on the ground floor wants them gone, as his flat is on the market & one or two bees have appeared in his living room.
I've been advised that the only way is to kill off the colony. Really? I hope not. Am wondering if it may be possible to gradually transfer some of them into a nuc ?

Short video of the swarm arriving -
https://www.dropbox.com/s/gama10yurpkugco/Bees.mov?dl=0
 #8297  by NigelP
 20 Jul 2020, 16:08
Alas they will be firmly entrenched in the chimney by now with drawn comb/brood and honey. You would need to dismantle the entire chimney to remove them, or break in at the point the nest is (Thermal imager will help locate nest).
Not an easy job I'm afraid.
 #8299  by Patrick
 20 Jul 2020, 20:41
Not clear why it’s your problem Dave?

He could just fit a sealed plate above his fireplace. There is no guarantee any purchaser would want to use the grate anyway, many nowadays do not. If they fitted a woodburner stove (much more likely) they would need to make other flue arrangements.

It’s not just a question of killing the current bees, unless measures are taken it is very likely another will be attracted in next year by the unused combs smell. Hence suggesting just sealing them out may be a lot easier.
 #8300  by AndrewLD
 21 Jul 2020, 08:23
This is crazy............
Why should anyone assume a future owner would not want to use the fireplace? First question I'd ask is on viewing - is "Can it be used". Unless it's a very old property it won't be a shared flue but a smoke test or CCTV can answer that one. If a future owner wanted to put in a woodburner it would have to have a flue liner.
Even my my local chimney-sweep has CCTV so no need for thermal imaging.
They (I am told by chimney-sweep) locate nest, take out bricks where nest is, think he said they destroy colony, remove wax and then put up a cowl with put a beeprooof mesh to stop more going in. Precise details may not be quite right but point is my local chimney-sweep is doing one of these a month in recent years.
So the answer is - call in chimney-sweep.
Next time - stop videoing and light a smokey fire.
 #8301  by AdamD
 21 Jul 2020, 13:26
AndrewLD wrote:
21 Jul 2020, 08:23
Next time - stop videoing and light a smokey fire.
That does actually work - It must be 10 years ago that I was called to a swarm that had just arrived in a chimney and a few bees were coming down it through an air vent. The owner cut a hole in the boarded up fireplace and I smoked with something unpleasant and very smokey in my smoker until the bees moved out of the chimney and onto the outside of it. They were then collected.
 #8303  by Patrick
 21 Jul 2020, 15:13
Has to be just arrived though. The crux is making sure the householder can convincingly describe them arriving, as distict from “l looked up this morning and noticed lots of bees so a swarm must have just arrived today”. Nobody spends their time routinely looking up - which also explains why Spider-Man was so successful.

May just be local to me, but no one around here uses an open hearth anymore, hence the suggestion of a cheap temporary fix. They even make chimney balloons to reduce cold drafts. My chimney sweep Graham doesn’t go near bees in chimneys and advises pest control, he’s also a beekeeper. I suppose it depends on personal experience, inclination, commercial viability and insured cover.

Interesting regarding the mesh cowl. A standard spark arrestor screen is way too large to stop bees but much smaller risks becoming tarred up (particularly if you burn wood) and not only becoming a fire risk itself but restricting the flow of gases such as carbon monoxide back down the chimney, unless regularly cleaned. Be interesting to know his mesh size, presumably sub ? 7mm. Living in area with lots of thatch I take an interest in these things after having had two chimney flue fires.
 #8304  by NigelP
 21 Jul 2020, 17:13
As usual I seem to fit in a minority of one ;)... Woodburner and open chimney flue. I was advised this was better than installing a smaller liner as the chimney will last a lifetime but the liners only last for 10-15 years before corroding. Aloso easier to sweep...
 #8305  by AndrewLD
 21 Jul 2020, 20:07
NigelP wrote:
21 Jul 2020, 17:13
Woodburner and open chimney flue. I was advised this was better than installing a smaller liner as the chimney will last a lifetime but the liners only last for 10-15 years before corroding. Aloso easier to sweep...
I am afraid you have been given some poor advice and if you are in a thatched cottage, it gets more complicated.
A woodburner is much more efficient than an open fire and the temperature in an unlined chimney becomes too cool towards the top to clear the tars etc in fuels such as coal and wood. You end up with an insufficient draught, which is bad news all on its own, and tars condense on the walls of the chimney, presenting an increased risk of a chimney fire, and the first you see of this is a nasty black stain percolating through the brickwork on the outside..... Flues are therefore required for woodburners.
In thatched cottages the same applies except that there have been instances where the flue is against the wall of the chimney (flue liners should be encased in vermiculite but it is not always possible to avoid a hotspot). If you do not line there is the danger of fires going out of the chimney through cracks into the thatch but if you do line (preferable) the problem arises that the increased velocity can serve to eject hot particles that then fall onto the thatch.
The advice is "Wood burning and multi fuelled stoves are NOT recommended for use in thatched buildings as they have been demonstrated to present a greater risk to the thatch than other forms of heating INCLUDING traditional open fires".
So unlined chimneys are good for open fires except in thatched buildings with old chimneys. Lined chimneys good for woodburners. Woodburners not necessarily good for thatched cottages if you insist on insanely hot fires because chimney fires and ejected materials are represent a greater risk......
I think that was it - my head hurts :(
Oh - and only cheapskates put in liners that are not high quality stainless steel........

For those living in thatched cottages who are now concerned there is some guidance from Historic England and a wonderful 87 page report is available at:
https://research.historicengland.org.uk/Report.aspx?i=16101&ru=%2fResults.aspx%3fp%3d1%26n%3d10%26rn%3d49%26ry%3d2018%26ns%3d1
 #8306  by NigelP
 22 Jul 2020, 08:26
Just as well I don't live in a thatched cottage. :)
My chimney is lined from top to bottom which is why I was correctly advised that I didn't need a metal hose as well...