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General Q&A, Bee chat and only Bee chat please
 #5783  by AndrewLD
 24 Feb 2020, 15:14
AdamD wrote:
24 Feb 2020, 11:12
I recall reading that 'hawking' by asian hornets stops bees from foraging which would tie in with the fact that the nucs which were fed protien and carbohydrates have done OK and the full-sized colonies which were only fed carbs did not do so well as they ran out of pollen.

So, the way to keep bees when the asian hornet arrives in the UK could be to feed them pollen substitute and syrup in autumn?
As few as 4 hawking hornets at the same time reduces the bees foraging by circa 40% and as numbers rise the bees stop foraging completely, stay in the hive consuming their stores and the queen goes off lay. That is countered by putting on a muzzle or shield, which relieves their stress and gets them foraging again so the queen lays the winter bees in September/October. Traps and electric harps can reduce hawking very effectively and reduce predation numbers. Early uniting helps under-strength colonies where bee numbers are a problem. You are spot on with pollen and syrup but don't forget water. Because queens going off lay can also be down to stress (bees may even kill her) it is important not to add stress (e.g. stressful varroa treatments) and to look at the whole problem holistically. High varroa loads, disease, lack of adequate diet all add to the stress load. The hornet can kill the colony on its own but as often as not it is the last straw in a chain.
All of this needs to kick in early so the bees are strong enough.
On a brighter note, the latest modelling suggests that hornet nest densities are significantly reduced the further North one gets into the climate zone Maritime North (see my article due in the BBKA News May 2020 edition for more on that).
 #5784  by Chrisbarlow
 24 Feb 2020, 21:26
I look forward to reading that article Andrew.
 #5790  by AdamD
 25 Feb 2020, 09:27
Me too.

I recall that a few years ago winter losses were poor and the rubbish autumn was blamed - this would agree with the thoughts about the hornets stopping foraging in France. If you don't get the colonies strong, they won't necessarily survive.

I noticed in the annual Norfolk Beekeepers book that several contributor's including me, noted a poor autumn and little ivy flow. Is this a precursor to high losses this winter I wonder. especially if we get a long cold spring. :?:
 #5792  by AndrewLD
 25 Feb 2020, 13:42
I know my 5 colonies are still there but I doubt one will make it. I tried to unite another under-strength colony to it last autumn only to see them kill the other bees over several days so my sympathy for it is rather limited.
I got a shock when I hefted my hives at the weekend (all 14x12's with an under-super at the start of winter) as one hive was very light and prompted me to slap on some fondant immediately. I think it's a strong colony that has been too active in this wet/warm winter and has just run out of stores! And they were fine when I hefted in January.
Just goes to remind me not to be complacent just because I made sure they had lots of stores before winter.
They have been taking in pollen (I think I posted that a while ago) but the way this is all going I think I am going to step in if we get any more warm wet and I am taking nothing for granted just because the other 4 were OK
 #5801  by AdamD
 28 Feb 2020, 09:28
The weather seems to be at best, fresh or moderate wind and rain a lot of the time, for the next week or two so you'll have to nip in quick!
It's frustrating that there's forage about but bees can't get out to fetch it back.
 #5802  by Patrick
 28 Feb 2020, 13:51
I have two that are now getting very light indeed - fondant time..

I also raised the crownboard on a very heavy one and part cluster is up in the (empty )super. It was a trial wintering on brood and a half and I am not convinced. Why oh why did i tempt fate by dissing isolation starving :roll: ?

This lack of flying weather reinforces the earlier discussions re consequences of pollen dearth. I know what will happen - I will buy a damn great sack of supplement and the weather will change, then we will have an Indian summer to boot.
 #5805  by AndrewLD
 28 Feb 2020, 18:13
I don't know about an Indian summer because by definition that comes in very late in year but I have spent some time looking at the met office's climate change predictions and whichever scenario you choose, conservative or whatever the alternate is (doom?) for the next 15 -20 years-ish they are both identical. Warmer but wetter winters and hotter dryer summers but with deluges when it does rain.........
I am normally a bit laid back when it comes to the climate change doom mongers but I am starting to take their side of it and I didn't need them to screw up all the traffic in Cambridge to see that :(
I think under-supering is better than putting one on top (happy to debate) and doing one or other seems to me to be the routine these days.
Got my regular e-mail from the NBU the other day with the usual bit about hefting but the tone seemed wrong, beginning to wonder if they think we are stupid :evil:
 #5809  by NigelP
 28 Feb 2020, 19:02
AndrewLD wrote:
28 Feb 2020, 18:13

I think under-supering is better than putting one on top (happy to debate) and doing one or other seems to me to be the routine these days.
Why?
Managing bee space and hive volume in relation to bee numbers, predicted future bee numbers and nectar flows is crucial to good management of colonies. There are times to give lots of room and time to reduce.
E.G. Start of big flow add lots of supers, most of mine will be on double brood and 4 to 5 supers as the OSR comes into flower.
Time to reduc is when I go to heather, KO all double brood down to one brood and replace space with supers. I don't need more bees made...I need what I've got out collecting heather honey.
To me its managing space with numbers of bees and flows (and swarming times) and how to exploit them. There is nothing fixed in stone here...sometime more space is good, sometimes less is good. All I know is my supprs get filled regularly, sometime too regularly.
Happy to debate space management of bees...
 #5820  by MickBBKA
 29 Feb 2020, 02:32
I undersuper over winter just for extra stores, several colonies have gone through probably 60lbs of stores this so called ' Winter ' . I do this so when the queen gets into gear she will lay in the brood box at the top and the super will be empty come Spring ( if we get one ) so I can then put it back over a queen excluder on top. Feb has been a nightmare. Blackthorn now in full flower, Hazel and Alder finished, Snowdrops going over, Daffs out, Cherry now flowering and I can't believe the pears at our allotment are starting to bud, they come out in May usually, also Hawthorn flower buds have appeared. The bees haven't flown for about a month as we haven't had a day with less than 25mph winds. God knows what they will forage on in march when all that stuff is finished. :?
 #5824  by AndrewLD
 29 Feb 2020, 12:52
NigelP wrote:
28 Feb 2020, 19:02
AndrewLD wrote:
28 Feb 2020, 18:13

I think under-supering is better than putting one on top (happy to debate) and doing one or other seems to me to be the routine these days.
Why?
Under-supering rather than leaving a super on top.... Because the super underneath raises the brood box out of the cold air under the OMF and into the bubble of warm air trapped at the top of the hive (which is well-insulated). It gets the brood away from the draught coming in the entrance (my deep stands also help because they match the profile of the OMF).
As Mick says, the super is empty when I rearrange the hive in late March and I don't want the bother of finding the queen to put her under a QX and then wait for the super to clear of brood. I think in these mild winters we have been having the bees have plenty of opportunity to move stores to suit themselves but I could get caught out one year.
Why leave a super on at all? Bearing in mind most people are on national brood box there just is not enough space for the bees to put enough stores away to cater for these winters when they are burning stores but with no chance of finding anything when they do fly.