BBKA Forum

British Beekeepers Association Official Forum 

  • Drawn comb exposed to varroa treatment

  • General Q&A, Bee chat and only Bee chat please
General Q&A, Bee chat and only Bee chat please
 #5208  by AndrewLD
 19 Nov 2019, 15:05
I like to keep a super on during August and then under-super it for winter. By the third week in March it will be completely clear and can be taken off when it is just drawn comb. This way I seem to avoid grumpy bees after the honey flow has ended and I rarely have to use fondant in the Spring.

However, this means the super is on the hive during varroa treatment which is usually Apiguard or Apivar (I have given up on Apistan for now!).

Trouble is that my stock of drawn frames marked as VT (for exposed to varroa treatment) is growing and growing.

What are the risks of varroa treatment residue getting into the wax and contaminating it. I am just wondering if I am being over cautious in keeping it out of any honey for humans chain? What can I do with all these VT marked frames?
 #5213  by Patrick
 19 Nov 2019, 18:09
I am not a chemist but as you suggest wax is susceptible to picking up chemical contaminants.

The question is after some previous exposure are they still persistent and likely to be transferred to honey stored in the comb in significant amounts and is it likely to be harmful. My guess with either product is you would be fine.

If you are less sure you can mark them as first supers and only use them for that purpose each year or melt them down and start again?
 #5220  by AdamD
 22 Nov 2019, 15:26
There was information in 'tinternet a few years ago about residues in wax as there was a worry that it was a contributory factor in CCD in the USA. I recall (and it may be selective memory) that thymol was OK but chemicals such as amitraz (apivar) and apistan/bayvarol were seen in wax. There were loads of other chemicals in the wax as well; although the CCD finger seems to be pointing away from wax residues now.
 #5226  by Patrick
 23 Nov 2019, 09:51
The problem is that the technology available means that chemicals in absolutely minute quantities are now still detectable in wax, but whether those are enough to influence brood is less clear.

Against that, a feature of many designed pesticides is that their toxicity is often intended to to work at incredibly low concentrations on their target species.
 #5228  by NigelP
 23 Nov 2019, 11:10
Chemicals incorporated into wax don't leach into honey to any serious degree. Wax is water repellant, so it's not an issue I would be too concerned with when it came to harvesting honey. You would probably find higher concentrations of pesticides in your cold pressed olive or rape seed oil.
Wax does however act as a repository for all sorts of chemicals the bees come across. I read a report from Belgium? that showed bees wax contained residues from most pesticides in modern use and also included residues from several banned pesticides....
Last edited by NigelP on 23 Nov 2019, 15:23, edited 1 time in total.
 #5229  by AndrewLD
 23 Nov 2019, 15:05
Patrick wrote:
19 Nov 2019, 18:09
...............................

If you are less sure you can mark them as first supers and only use them for that purpose each year or melt them down and start again?
Thank you all for your thoughts on what I suspect is a bit of a Pandora's box and I have probably been over-cautious - if one can be when the human food chain is involved.....

I'd be grateful if someone could explain the "first super" reference. As my first super on the hive is usually the first to come off with Spring honey (unless I fail yet again to get it off in time :( ) I was rather thinking of putting the possibly contaminated frames on the hive in the last super. That is the one I put on expecting it to stay on the hive for August and the one that is usually only half-finished so unextractable?
 #5230  by Patrick
 23 Nov 2019, 23:19
Hi AndrewLD

Sorry if I was unclear, by first super I really meant marking and using the same super each year as the one you put aside maybe after March removal to later add by putting directly over the brood box for the bees (or you) to fill with whatever they find in August before you then treat your bees, then and finally put it under the brood chamber. Next year repeat.

I am assuming you take off your main crop end July? In which case you can either give them a quick feed to fill the marked single super or remove other supers but put your marked one on before the main completely finishes to make sure it is filled with honey.

That way one and the same box of super combs ever gets “contaminated”. By the sound of it, you are currently continually generating newly “contaminated” frames every year which sounds bit of a nightmare!

Is that clearer? Of course I may have misunderstood your routine. I find summer flows are often very localised and can keep going in one place but to all intents stop dead in others. It can be a real issue in a wall to wall brood box if all supers are suddenly removed and the surrounding area has also ceased producing nectar. You rarely see it referred unless as a “June Gap”. Maybe it’s because in pre OSR pre varroa days you may have bunged on supers in April and maybe only took them all off in September?
 #5231  by AndrewLD
 24 Nov 2019, 09:52
Patrick wrote:
23 Nov 2019, 23:19
Hi AndrewLD

Sorry if I was unclear, by first super I really meant marking and using the same super each year as the one you put aside maybe after March removal to later add by putting directly over the brood box for the bees (or you) to fill with whatever they find in August before you then treat your bees, then and finally put it under the brood chamber. Next year repeat. ............................................
Thank you Patrick. That's very helpful and is exactly what I am doing. The problem that prompted me to ask this question of the forum is that I am indeed slowly building up a stock of frames marked as potentially contaminated and am constantly buying new frames and foundation. At least now I have the Thorne's Easisteam I can save on frames :)

I think I am being over cautious on the Apiguard but I am really not sure about the Amitraze despite the reassurrance Apivar give concerning residues. Sadly, if the Asian Hornet gets a grip then I can see an increase in the use of treatments such as Apivar because one will want to treat and feed at the same time during August but that's a different story and looking further ahead.

Nice to see so many members of the previous forum are still around.
 #5235  by NigelP
 24 Nov 2019, 16:53
You might want to google "migration testing in food packaging". Wax wrappings are one of many products use to wrap our food in. Not a lot on beeswax wraps or migration from beeswax though..